A controversial topic...

Discuss anything you like in here, as long as it doesn't belong in the other forums and is appropriate.

Moderator: Moderators

Faction Leader
User avatar
Posts: 1447
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:42 pm
Location: Wellington

A controversial topic...

Postby Monkey222 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:25 pm

I'm watching a doco on TV1 about Indiana State Prison and death row. The question I wanna know is:

Do you agree with the death penalty?

My personal opinion is that it shouldn't exist. No persons crime should outweigh their entire life/history/future. I understand the ramifications of my opinion and the reasons for the death penalty.

What do you think?
WANTED: ROTF Lockdown, Classics Grimlock Missile, ROTF Stratosphere.

View my Trade Me listings: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=2437745

Collection count is in! The grand total is 466 transformers!-20/06/2014

Pretender
User avatar
Posts: 531
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:01 am

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby Antonio Handsome » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:29 am

Absolutely not!

I also personally feel that we treat imprisonment incorrectly. I don't think we should be 'punishing', but 'rehabilitating'. I'd like to see much more of a push towards educating, analysing and treating prisoners, rather than just throwing them into a cell and calling it a day. Something like much of the Scandinavian system.

Of course, this doesn't mean I think we should give prisoners puppies and rainbows, but maybe look more at why they're offending, and how we can stop them offending again.

But back to the death penalty - nope. I think that the state has no say in executing someone. It can take responsibility for ensuring society is safe from that person, but not by ending their life.
i am great at signatures

TFNZ Princess
User avatar
Posts: 3817
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 3:42 pm
Location: Aotearoa

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby Mr_Ash » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:05 am

Antonio Handsome wrote:Absolutely not!

I also personally feel that we treat imprisonment incorrectly. I don't think we should be 'punishing', but 'rehabilitating'. I'd like to see much more of a push towards educating, analysing and treating prisoners, rather than just throwing them into a cell and calling it a day. Something like much of the Scandinavian system.

Of course, this doesn't mean I think we should give prisoners puppies and rainbows, but maybe look more at why they're offending, and how we can stop them offending again.

But back to the death penalty - nope. I think that the state has no say in executing someone. It can take responsibility for ensuring society is safe from that person, but not by ending their life.


I agree with all of this. There needs to be substantially more Psychology employed into the correctional system.
"..you get more classy every time."
"..you are a gentleman and a scholar."
Image

Gestalt
User avatar
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:18 pm

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby kevman12 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:29 am

In my opinion if a person kills or commits a crime but his history does not reflect who he is (One of crime) - then I agree the Death Penalty is not o.k.

However, if a person is a psychotic. He/She has done the crime multiple times - MULTIPLE RAPES OF KIDS, SISTERS, MOTHERS, (MURDER <-- METHOD OF MURDER, DISMEMBER, LIMBS), TORTURE without remorse <---- THEN I DO AGREE WITH THE DEATH PENALTY.


In my opinion the DEATH PENALTY should be subject to the gravity of the crime. It should not be imposed on less trivial maters.

Autobot Commander
User avatar
Posts: 4110
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 11:28 pm
Location: Wellington

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby Mr.Deflok » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:53 am

Usually the death penalty is only employed when the crime has been considered heinous enough. In the Western world anyway.

I believe in compassion so this means one should forgive and help but the fact of the matter is that some people are beyond saving and beyond redemption. Fritzl for example is inhuman. He lost his soul a long time ago. Trying to fix him won't work. He is completely broken. Better that he is away from society so society is that much safer.

I do not agree with the death penalty as it is no humans right to take anothers life whatever the reason.

Gestalt
User avatar
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:18 pm

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby kevman12 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:18 am

Mr.Deflok wrote:Usually the death penalty is only employed when the crime has been considered heinous enough. In the Western world anyway. I believe in compassion so this means one should forgive and help but the fact of the matter is that some people are beyond saving and beyond redemption. Fritzl for example is inhuman. He lost his soul a long time ago. Trying to fix him won't work. He is completely broken. Better that he is away from society so society is that much safer. I do not agree with the death penalty as it is no humans right to take anothers life whatever the reason.


Just to put a spin on things, not being religious and the general response so far is like a Christian's Perspective (Compassion), Mercy, Rehabilitation. I don't know everyone's background (so far you guys are all nice :D :D :D ) and again not being religious, not wanting to offend but o.k. here it is :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :

Would we (western worldview) say this if we were in the Middle-East (Muslim-worldview)?

Headmaster City
User avatar
Posts: 2135
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:32 pm
Location: Palmy north

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby green dragoon » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:18 am

kevman12 wrote:In my opinion if a person kills or commits a crime but his history does not reflect who he is (One of crime) - then I agree the Death Penalty is not o.k.

However, if a person is a psychotic. He/She has done the crime multiple times - MULTIPLE RAPES OF KIDS, SISTERS, MOTHERS, (MURDER <-- METHOD OF MURDER, DISMEMBER, LIMBS), TORTURE without remorse <---- THEN I DO AGREE WITH THE DEATH PENALTY.


In my opinion the DEATH PENALTY should be subject to the gravity of the crime. It should not be imposed on less trivial maters.



I Agree with alot of what Kev is saying I believe the death penalty should be at least considered when dealing with the most atrocious and evil persons rather than wasting thousands of dollars a years keeping them fed and incarcerated.
I also believe serious sex offenders and pedophiles should be castrated either surgically or chemically.

We also need to get harder on those that reside within prisons because its ment to be a punishment not a timeout chair. no smokes, no tv and the most basic sustenance like gruel. oh and whats with all the weight lifting equipment in prisons? do we want to make them stronger so they can over power the the prison wardens? so that has to go as well.

I just feel sometimes the punishment dosent fit the crime in NZ soft Justice system.
The Surprising Adventures of Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

A Tomahawk of Honesty in the Skull of Lies

Autobot Commander
User avatar
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:52 pm
Location: Auckland

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby buyaball » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:08 pm

you can't punish a murderer by murdering them we are NOT gods and we have NO right to decide if someone may live or die under our watch

BUT contradicting what i said i do believe it wasteful that someone that is in jail for life (the american version not our stupid 9 year BS) it is costly for the taxpayer if we can't put them to death we should be using them as labour like we used to back in the day (these days i think criminals have too many rights we can't make them work for the community because it's seen by some as slave labour)

when i see jail on TV (docos not movies) they have sky TV they have 2-3 roast meals a week they have more than some poor but hardworking families do

jail is not a rehabilitation institution like it should be we should be educating them and teaching them how to live in society and not letting them go out till they are ready (ready is different for each person not a set scale of time for everyone

the future problem is most prisons are becoming privately owned and operated i don't agree with any company whose best interests it to keep prisoners for as long as possible because it is profitable to them

wow how many times did i contradict myself in this post?

my main reason for being against the death penalty is the amount of people over the years i have seen go to jail then years later it is found out the police dicked the evidence and the person was later found innocent even if they spend 10 years in jail atleast when things are found out they can live the rest of their lives


yeah reading back i am in 2 minds about it i think it's a waste of space and money keeping someone alive in jail for the rest of their lives but at the same time i feel we should not be able to punish someone to death
Image

don't click this link...

If you watch Titanic backwards, It is a heart warming tale of a ship which jumps out of the water & saves lots of drowning people.

TFNZ Administrator
User avatar
Posts: 9008
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:08 pm
Location: North Shore, Auckland, NZ

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby Starscream NZ » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:49 pm

In general, I disagree with the death penalty. However, there are certain, rare cases in which I wonder 'why is this person allowed to still be breathing?'.

The only case in which i'd accept a death penalty is where the person who committed the crime has a 0% chance of rehabilitation. Someone who has completely lost their humanity and there is no chance of them ever being able to redeem themselves. Yes, we could lock them away for the rest of their lives, but what does that accomplish? It costs tens of thousands of dollars to keep them there.

I do think that the prison system does need to be severely overhauled though. I agree that there should be increased labour work done there (seems that a fair few criminals tend to find jail a 'easy' place to live and commit crimes just to go back there), and a stronger emphasis on understanding why criminals did what they did, and at least try to find a way to rehabilitate them to prevent it happening upon parole.

Headmaster City
User avatar
Posts: 2637
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:51 am
Location: Auckland New Zealand

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby Spike » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:05 pm

I agree with the death penalty.

Not that it should be a jump-to punishment but when you consider that these people have effectively sentenced a family to death themselves, how can you justify them being allowed to walk free with rehabilitation?

When a person is murdered, it doesn't just finish their life, but everyone who is left behind. Especially if it is a child.

Plus, punishments should serve as a deterrent, the fact that we have so much crime involving assault and rape suggests that the deterrents are not taken seriously.

I don't go in for the whole, we aren't gods and can't make that decision argument. We are a society and set our laws as a democratic nation. We can't say "no you can't do that but I will leave it up to somebody else to judge you if you do"

I don't mean to offend but people who make altruistic statements like that seem insensitive, condescending and imcompassionate. Imagine your young daughter is taken, abused, raped and buried alive. Still want to educate and rehabilitate?

Personally, if anyone attacked my family, wife or child, I shudder to think of what I would do. What would you do?
Spike's want list
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12376

Headmaster City
User avatar
Posts: 2637
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:51 am
Location: Auckland New Zealand

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby Spike » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:06 pm

by the by, I do not expect or seek people to agree with me. I just like the idea of the open forum for us to have the opportunity to state why we believe so strongly the way we do.

Thanks for reading guys.
Spike's want list
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12376

TFNZ Administrator
User avatar
Posts: 9008
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:08 pm
Location: North Shore, Auckland, NZ

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby Starscream NZ » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:19 pm

I'd also want to say, that if we did re-instate it, that it could only be done with the evidence is irrefutable and there is no room for question. A case like David Bain, where there evidence was questionable should be an indication of a case where it shouldn't involve the death penalty, as evidence was never 100% confirmed/no confession.

However I think in a case of if he had admitted/irrefutable evidence, that that sort of crime would be a candidate for capital punishment. Or the butchering of that poor kid in Christchurch cause he told some guy his girlfriend didn't love him.

Evil Decepticon
User avatar
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:15 am

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby Fairtex » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:26 pm

A controversial answer for a controversial topic.

Here's one's opinion that will ruffle feathers.

I believe in 1 second chance for redemption (depending on the crime).

For a first time felon with a clean background: Whipped and jail time in a real jail like the ones in South East Asia. Jail in NZ is a 5 star hotel compared to over there.

For a felon committing crime after the above or after any previous jail time: No death row. Instant death. Bullet in the head. Cheap and efficient.

Crime against my family: Won't be reported, won't make it to court. Dealt with personally. Will leave out details on how ;)

Most of you (if not all) will not agree with the above.

Anyway, that's just my way of doing things :)

Headmaster City
User avatar
Posts: 2637
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:51 am
Location: Auckland New Zealand

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby Spike » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:08 pm

Lol I don't think Fairtex should have 'heroic autobot' next to his name.

Respect your opinion though, especially about the prisons. I know of one person who had a cellphone in prison and that just seems wrong
Spike's want list
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12376

TFNZ Administrator
User avatar
Posts: 9008
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:08 pm
Location: North Shore, Auckland, NZ

Re: A controversial topic...

Postby Starscream NZ » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:30 pm

Spike wrote:Lol I don't think Fairtex should have 'heroic autobot' next to his name.

Respect your opinion though, especially about the prisons. I know of one person who had a cellphone in prison and that just seems wrong


Agreed....about the cellphone thing anyway :P


Prison needs to be something the general prison population fear. I see no value in keeping them locked up, doing essentially nothing. I do not see why we cannot have them doing jobs or crafts that benefit the greater community, wouldn't that be doing everyone some good?

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests