.....is tfnz dying?

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.....is tfnz dying?

Postby iceman » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:16 pm

Regardless how i word this topic/post, im going to get alot of backlash but i suppose somebody has had to come forth with the balls to talk about it....

im not dragging anybody down into the mud with me, but i talk to a few members and/or followers of these forums offsite that feel the same...

Basically my and others problem is lying with the management and direction of these forums.



so these are my questions and thoughts:

*WHY the bloody hell are there so many moderators running this site?

*WHY are moderators biased? I am personally feeling the pinch of a tad-bit of bias. On most well run forums, moderators can not have any lean towards any members.

*WHY are posts deleted with such ease, i feel some people are using the delete post icon with abit of trigger-happiness.

*SITE security regards spamming is still rubbish, manually deleting posts need not be the resolve.

*WHY are people allowed to get away with making comments that ruin the threads of others, when the person making the comment does not know what the hell they are talking about whatsoever in the first place or poor lack of subject matter, either or....

My organisation questions....

*Can there be annual competitions made up on a calender, instead of out of the blue competitions, to allow people wanting to enter the suitable time and preparation, also this will boost competitor numbers... AND,
can the judgement be made always by member vote, not that of an individual. This erases any bias decision making potential that could occur.

*Can the boards at least get a transformer theme skin or something related to transformers instead of...blue...

*specific "interested in" topics should be banned- most annoying when people put dibs on things not knowing much about what they are dibbing on, then backing out later- effectively meaning somebody who may have wanted it doesn't get it

I know this is your baby/site-forums starscream nz, but as transformers is a limited topic like most dedicated forums tend to be, everything must be done to ensure members stick around, or WANT to stick around, and new members keep coming to keep it thriving. Quite frankly, it seems like there is just a core group of people that seem to stick around, and as a result the air gets stale, -hinting at the slowing in posts... well, interesting ones anyway...


Somethings gotta be done to get this running better and more effectively , I know this is a very matey-friendy forum but forums like these are for the public to use as a meeting place and must be treated totally professionally as so.


I expect some of you to disagree. Quite frankly, i am not after opinions... just answers to my questions,
many thanks.

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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby Zippo » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:39 pm

BANNED and LOCKED!


.. ok that was just too easy.
Hrm, some comments later. I smell dinner.

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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby NKF » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:56 pm

There are merits in the comments. I'm only a visitor to the site so can only really speak for myself on these points.

We didn't have many moderators before. And often when we got problems, the core team of mods weren't immediately on hand to deal with them. The new moderators we did get recently are amongst the regular posters. It's a shame, but most forums on the web that have a quiet period do appear to only be populated by a small team of regulars. If they also happen to be mods, then we get a similar situation as we have now.

I can't really comment on the bias except that I feel that often simple bluntness is easily perceived as bias/rudeness.

The deletion of posts - ah, that's an interesting point. I don't know if it's done here, but the two web based forums that I'm a global moderator on have a 'alien containment' system where posts are made invisible and moved to a containment forum that is hidden from normal members. Here, the moderators can debate amongst themselves and decide what to do next before deleting it entirely. This has the benefit that the main forum administrators can add the IP address of the poster to a block list in the event that is it spam - thus reducing the spam. Is that done here? I'm only a regular member so I wouldn't be able to see a containment forum if it was hidden.

From my own experience on the other forums, manging the site security is a difficult task. Security threats can change as often as you change your clothes. A dual or triple captcha thingy might work for screening bots during signup. Not much you can do about the trojan horse accounts that are already on board but manually block their IPs as they act up.

Out of place comments - it happens unfortunately. Either best ignored, split to a separate thread or make sure that the people actively participating in the thread steer it back to its original subject matter. For repeat or serious offenders, a mod can send a private word of warning to the member.

For the events I think the site used to have them before I signed up. The competition forum at least has been locked for a long time. If you were referring to the TFNZ Next Top Model thing - I thought that was just a bit of harmless fun rather than anything serious.

Skins: I like the plain skin - I really do. Less eye-hurty. But that's just a personal preference. ;) A choice of skins like we used to have would certainly be appropriate. Actually, wasn't there some discussion about some skins in the pipeline a while back? Could make a fun competition out it, mind.

The dib system has its faults, but the system is set up to establish a pecking order. Those cast second dibs still have a chance to get the item if the first person backs out. If the first person doesn't appear to be expressing any interest and holds up the thing for a long time, then that should be established by someone asking. For those requesting for offers of particular items, I think there should be no clear expectation until the requester has decided.

Ah, no matter what I or others say, there will always be room for improvement. ;)

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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby iceman » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:26 pm

my main point is clear in the devastator topic i did.
i spend, well quite abit of time taking photos and what not just to put up something different, maybe give some people a look at what somethings like if they ever wanted to fully know or inspiration to go buy one themselves and what not and it gets made a shambles of.

Likewise another example was a post somewhere in my collection thread,

and another in a thread about a vortex, buyaballs post completely deleted and half my response.
IF things are wanted to be kept in a formal way, then maybe things better be bought up to a formal standard all the time.

theres always somebody leaft feeling pissed off in a dibs thread.....not all of us have the time on our hands to be online all the time to check.


Competitions are fantastic for everybody, and my suggestion is more in the region of getting some down set in concrete, unless something happens, so we all know whats coming up and can have fun, because they are indeed alot of fun. I give it to starscream for the model idea, very good. by making these competitions annual, people will want to stick around for next years...instead of coming and going as alot of people do. this will strengthen the future of this site and hopefully bring growth.
of course all competitions should always remain fun and not serious.

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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby buyaball » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:45 pm

[quote="iceman"]and another in a thread about a vortex, buyaballs post completely deleted and half my response.[=quote]

and i never asked for my comments to be deleated as most people didn't see it i was not concerned about my reputation actually i had at the time a good comeback to what iceman had posted after my post in relation to people repairing TF's etc...

also there was no need to deleate the comment there was no harm or malice nor insalt in what i said on the vortex topic

Hmmmm going back some... the scrapper and hook that should have been deleated long before the flame war started even if it was good reading for some!... it was intentionally insalting defamational and most of the stuff said was constructed lies to belittle someone without just corse

i still stand on the fact that nameless was pissed for the wrong reason or for no reason at all as his argument that started that thread was backwards to what REALLY happened ~~~i'm not bring it up again its way in the past! but its an example to where mistakes are made on this site


in most respects i do agree with iceman

but the back ground is fine and to my understanding its simple to keep the bandwidth levels down

and the compition was just a bot of fun no need to advertize weeks in advance
Last edited by buyaball on Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby iceman » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:51 pm

well, even though i was a leading exponent in that thread, i have to retreat and say that you raise a good point shane, it should have been axed totally, stopping us in our tracks. time has seen things right though but yeah big loophole.

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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby Starscream NZ » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:33 pm

Well, first of all, if you have questions specifically relating to me, why did you not PM me to talk to me directly about it rather than doing it on a public forum? It seems that would've been the right thing to do. Though you've also admitted that you're looking for people with similar opinions to yourself.

There is a reason that we do not hold annual competitions, and that simply is the fact that I have no idea if and when I can get prizes organized for them. Is that not fair enough? I gave at least a weeks notice for Next Top Model, sufficient time for people to register their interest. Fact is, if people aren't visiting less than once a week, they would not be the ideal candidates for that specific competition. Why join a competition that requires daily entries if you know you can't comply? You're relatively new here and if you'd done research you'd know that we've often held competitions that've had weeks to enter. I think that this should more than answer your question. As for judging, it depends on the type of competition. Sometimes we have judges, sometimes we do not. I seem to recall we had judges for the previous competition prior to TFNZ NTM

The Buy/Sell/Trade forum has it's rules and guidelines, it's a first in, first served deal. If you want an item that's currently on hold, you're welcome to show your interest in being a buyer if the initial sale falls through. Not a fault of TFNZ.

The theme of the forums is actually already under process to be changed. It's currently as it is because it's clean and easy to read. It doesn't need to be flooded with images of Transformers just because it's a TF forum, we don't want to overload viewers with imagery, plus it is inefficient for those on dial up.

Currently, we have 3 active administrators. Myself, onslaught and Zippo. JimCamel is a technical admin but does little actual administrating of users. Our moderators include Soundblaster and Subria because they have the advantage of having more time, or being in a different timezone to moderate the forums.

I have not seen or been reported ANY moderator bias. I think that it's unfair you make this accusation yet show no proof of where there has been edited posts. Moderators are advised against bias as it's not part of TFNZ's policy. I personally have not been overly frequent on here the last few weeks due to health and personal reasons so I have not been told of any modded or bias going on here. Again, why not contact me or another moderator instead of saying nothing until now? I could be wrong but it seems that you almost have a vendetta against me, or this website. Why not raise concerns when they arise, as opposed to leaving them to one large, seemingly malicious post?

Security on TFNZ is currently in a bad way. I don't deny this at all, I have figured out the best way to deal with spambots and will be initiating it shortly, thus meaning registration will still be open permanently.

The reason that this is a 'matey forum' is answered by yourself. Regardless of the popularity of the TF films, we're still a niche club, of course we bond if we're long time members and become friends. We're all enjoying the same geeky hobby, at times that can be intimidating for new members but I see no hostility towards new members when we get them, unless they are unfamiliar of rules or come into instantly criticize, or, like Veg, are trolls.


Next time, bring these questions up with the people who can answer them, don't attempt to call me out in public.

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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby green dragoon » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:01 am

I would just like to say i enjoy this little NZ forum compared to other bigger TF forums around the world because its a tighter and mostly local communty I've been to larger forums and i've always felt like you just lost in the crowd.

and i dont think where dying so much as its just a quiet time in the TF world with animated gone and the second movie behind us and new stuff only just starting to appear on shelfs......

keep up the good work Mods and Admins 8)
Last edited by green dragoon on Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby Subria » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:55 am

I'd be interested to know which Moderators you believe are biased, being a Moderator myself. It's one thing to point fingers, but if you don't want to name names, then why bother bringing up the issue in the first place?

If you are unhappy with the direction, or content of a thread, then by all means direct a member of staff (and there are a lot of us apparently...) to go and have a look (the Report button works quite well), and we'll go and apply some moderation to the thread. We're not always online, but we do get around to it.
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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby iceman » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:56 am

Thanks to all others who skipped my bit about not being interested in opinions....


I think you miss read my posts.


Let me answer your posted response :D



"Well, first of all, if you have questions specifically relating to me, why did you not PM me to talk to me directly about it rather than doing it on a public forum?"

Because i don't like to hide, and as i was one of the many who put money in to keep it going, just like everybody else who did, i have a say in what should be going on.

"Though you've also admitted that you're looking for people with similar opinions to yourself."

Re-read my post, there already is others who think the same way, and as i said, im not draggin there name down with me.

"There is a reason that we do not hold annual competitions, and that simply is the fact that I have no idea if and when I can get prizes organized for them. Is that not fair enough? I gave at least a weeks notice for Next Top Model, sufficient time for people to register their interest. Fact is, if people aren't visiting less than once a week, they would not be the ideal candidates for that specific competition. Why join a competition that requires daily entries if you know you can't comply?"

Again, re read posts above, i gave you praise for the model competition, making it annual would be great to ensure more people may try in the years to come. This would also give ample time to secure prizes etc, and be good to let people know what the prize is actually going to be, or close enough to what it will be.

"you're relatively new here and if you'd done research you'd know that we've often held competitions that've had weeks to enter. I think that this should more than answer your question"

Ahhh, alas, like quite a few transformer "people" around the place, i viewed the pages occasionally - never signed up. there are quite a few people like that, so whats going wrong to take them so long to sign up...theres no good reason.... all these people that buyaball etc where trying to get to sign up recently havn't exactly started posting in their numbers have they.... I am also talking about this place in present tense not the past years gone by.

"The Buy/Sell/Trade forum has it's rules and guidelines, it's a first in, first served deal. If you want an item that's currently on hold, you're welcome to show your interest in being a buyer if the initial sale falls through. Not a fault of TFNZ."

might need to give them a look to avoid falling out or members getting pissed at each other, preventing the accident before it happens so to say. It is one of the sole reasons why people sign up to these forums really, and in reality always will be.


"The theme of the forums is actually already under process to be changed. It's currently as it is because it's clean and easy to read. It doesn't need to be flooded with images of Transformers just because it's a TF forum, we don't want to overload viewers with imagery, plus it is inefficient for those on dial up"

yes i agree, nicer but still relatively simple is the way to go, perhaps vbulletin boards?


"I have not seen or been reported ANY moderator bias. I think that it's unfair you make this accusation yet show no proof of where there has been edited posts."

Again, read me and buyaballs above again, i give 3 examples, 2 exceptional ones.


"Moderators are advised against bias as it's not part of TFNZ's policy.'' good to see, and dont mean your policy really..


"I personally have not been overly frequent on here the last few weeks due to health and personal reasons so I have not been told of any modded or bias going on here. Again, why not contact me or another moderator instead of saying nothing until now? I could be wrong but it seems that you almost have a vendetta against me, or this website"

I am very positive that i do not have a vendetta against the website...HOWEVER in the future, in all honesty, if Soundbalster, Jip or Gravitron leaft, for whatever reason as people come and go, these forums would be dead. Soundblaster and jip sometimes almost single handidly keep these forums going, especially jips posts on movies or games etc which are entirely unrelated to the main subject matter! I just dont see any leadership or commitment being made to grow this place to ensure it sticks around, you were at the end of the road last year, said it yourself. This place has potential thats not being takin advantage of and i can only see it leading to dissolve in the years ahead.
I great idea with the G.i. joe thread has been realized but currently is stuck being just a little thread.. i mean, i dont really know much about joes but if its going to bring good traffic to the site by all means get something happening, people want it!

"Why not raise concerns when they arise, as opposed to leaving them to one large, seemingly malicious post?"

sorry if it seems malicious, i care alot and would not like to see people go different ways. i've put it into one post to be an eye catcher and wake up call.

"Security on TFNZ is currently in a bad way. I don't deny this at all, I have figured out the best way to deal with spambots and will be initiating it shortly, thus meaning registration will still be open permanently."

sounds like good news on the horizon :D

"The reason that this is a 'matey forum' is answered by yourself. Regardless of the popularity of the TF films, we're still a niche club, of course we bond if we're long time members and become friends. We're all enjoying the same geeky hobby, at times that can be intimidating for new members but I see no hostility towards new members when we get them, unless they are unfamiliar of rules or come into instantly criticize, or, like Veg, are trolls."

totally agree.

"Next time, bring these questions up with the people who can answer them, don't attempt to call me out in public."

you are the person to bring it up with, if you dont have the time and total dedication, maybe give it to somebody who does, and who has the financial ability, because a little bit of coin input would help no end. Basically, getting the name out there more effectively..


my question in summary, Awhile ago, I put up a thread seeing if we could beat the most users online... i think we got to 11 or 17 i cant remember now... SO Why is that.... Why has there been such a shrinkage...i bet if we did another attempt we would get even less..
Somethings going wrong to be down on so many active members.




And Finally case in point about these boards being old,
i already have a few members on my cell or msn because i can chat to them instantly instead of old school posting or waiting to log in to check messages, if the boards were updated, could chat to them as they were on line. hence people would be sticking around and posting.

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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby Starscream NZ » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:50 am

You seem fixated on the idea that someone should be rich and invest money into a forum to make it successful. I have been running this forum, and website for many many years, only very rarely have I ever asked for a small DONATION from members. There was never any pressure that anyone would have to pay. I would ask no more than a gold-coin donation, though some were generous and offered more.

Yes, you donated last time and I appreciate that. But please remember that this was a donation, NOT a fee, so this does not mean you own a share of TFNZ and thus have a say in how TFNZ is run. I don't donate to the NZ AIDS Foundation and then tell them how to run their HIV Awareness Programmes, so why should you donating to TFNZ mean you have an authority to dictate change? It defeats the purpose of the donation.

You say you "don't like to hide" - I'm sorry but that is a poor excuse to challenge me publicly to raise these issues. You say you have 'supporters' yet show no evidence of this, and refuse to name names as to who is unhappy here. It doesn't help your case whatsoever if you cannot tell me whose unhappy. Regardless of this, as Subria has also pointed out, if you suspected bias and censorship, why did you not raise the alarm earlier, we have report buttons and PM's exactly for that reason. Waiting until you decide to unleash your frustrations in one big attacking post is really not the correct way to deal with your problems.

I will no be running 'annual' competitions because there is only one place I can secure prizes from and that totally depends on what they can offer at set times. Hasbro go out of their way to deliver us prizes when they could plain and simple just say 'no, bugger off'. I have worked hard to keep good relations with Hasbro, and without that no one would be getting any prizes. Who else would've managed to get a Gold TF07 Optimus Prime figure as a prize? One of only 80 figures in the world, and it was thanks to me that we got to have it as a prize on the forums. Getting sponsorship isn't easy and it's thanks to me that we got such great prizes last year. The reason I did not reveal the prize for Top Model was because I was given a bunch of different prizes to give away, and I started the competition before I had decided the final prize for it. I have more prizes here waiting to be won.

People can sign up if and when they please. I am not concerned about how many people are posting or joining up. As long as the content on here is relevant to the topics, I couldn't care if it was 10 regulars or 100 regulars. This is a TRANSFORMERS forum, not a GI Joe forum, and judging by the limited replies in the specifically made thread for Joe fans, I made a correct decision to not make a Joe forum. We have a Pop Culture forum where people can discuss other franchises so if people want to talk about them, they have their place to discuss it.

B/S/T has it's ground rules. So long as the seller abides by those, it's not our problem if you miss out on getting something you want. Luck of the draw, I believe it's called.

Perhaps you don't check out the upper half of the forums, but I see quite a lot of activity in the TF News/General and Sightings forums, this will only increase as TF3 rolls into production and new toys begin hitting our shelves. TF news fluctuates like the tides and at the moment we are indeed in a quiet spot. This is going to be changing, TF3 kicks into filming next week so expect to see more updates. Registration will also be fixed by then so we will have more members participating.

These are message boards, NOT chat rooms. I text, tweet and msn many people on here, yet I will still also post. The more chat-based we go, the less we will use these forums. It seems your saying you want the boards to be more popular, but at the same time wanting a system that would defeat the purpose of the forums but having a chat-room instead.

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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby iceman » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:25 pm

"so why should you donating to TFNZ mean you have an authority to dictate change?"

because the next time you get up the shitter less people will donate and the forums may indeed need to change hands or shut.


"You say you "don't like to hide" - I'm sorry but that is a poor excuse to challenge me publicly to raise these issues."

hows that a poor excuse, im questioning your management, or lack of.

"you say you have 'supporters' yet show no evidence of this, and refuse to name names as to who is unhappy here. It doesn't help your case whatsoever if you cannot tell me whose unhappy."


because if membership termination happens, which is most likely, and/or they wont be effected by peoples changing view point on them.


"Subria has also pointed out, if you suspected bias and censorship, why did you not raise the alarm earlier, we have report buttons and PM's exactly for that reason. Waiting until you decide to unleash your frustrations in one big attacking post is really not the correct way to deal with your problems."

because im entitled to think how im going to approach it, and feelings regarding these forums have taken time to mount up.

"I will no be running 'annual' competitions because there is only one place I can secure prizes from and that totally depends on what they can offer at set times. Hasbro go out of their way to deliver us prizes when they could plain and simple just say 'no, bugger off'. I have worked hard to keep good relations with Hasbro, and without that no one would be getting any prizes. Who else would've managed to get a Gold TF07 Optimus Prime figure as a prize? One of only 80 figures in the world, and it was thanks to me that we got to have it as a prize on the forums. Getting sponsorship isn't easy and it's thanks to me that we got such great prizes last year."


well, if you had a clever business sense, and the members, you would have the traffic to enable to be sponsored, thus being able to finance prizes... it does not have to be up to hasbro to donate anything. given how tiny this is, they are indeed very good at giving what they give, and good on you for securing prizes from them, i will not contest that whatsoever., so definatly good work there.

"The reason I did not reveal the prize for Top Model was because I was given a bunch of different prizes to give away, and I started the competition before I had decided the final prize for it. I have more prizes here waiting to be won."

sounds awesome and great for everybody.


"and judging by the limited replies in the specifically made thread for Joe fans, I made a correct decision to not make a Joe forum. "

so you think joe collectors are made up only by the people currently on here....

"These are message boards, NOT chat rooms. I text, tweet and msn many people on here, yet I will still also post. The more chat-based we go, the less we will use these forums. It seems your saying you want the boards to be more popular, but at the same time wanting a system that would defeat the purpose of the forums but having a chat-room instead."

people would still be logged on and seeing new posts and replying to them, instead of talking on other things like msn twitter facebook etc and not bothering to log in at all to tfnz.



Basically is there a future in this place? or is it just waiting till its key members start moving on with their lives, families careers etc, because its clear no steps are being taken for the long term longetivity, and at the end of the day, even though its yours and you started it etc etc....transformers people in this country, sometimes even out of it, need a proper meeting place/club in the years ahead.

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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby Starscream NZ » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:48 pm

iceman, you seem to only see things from a financial/business perspective. This is not what TFNZ is about. It's a community forum. Not a business venture. If you don't like this, then perhaps it would be best if you did your online dealings here. Don't like the way I run things? Well, sorry. I've run this site, successfully for years, no one has had any problem with it except for you.

No one has ever questioned my "lack of" leadership before, and I trust that this is because i've been doing a good job. I can't please everyone and you seem to have a real dislike for the fact I have opposing views than you. So, while some of your comments have been valid points, such as membership/security, I also feel most of it was an attack on me because things don't go your way.

Needless to say, I have defended your accusations against me, and have little more to say on the matter. If you don't like how TFNZ is being run, then go. We were fine before you joined and I am confident we can cope with you not being here either.

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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby mr_sooty » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:21 pm

iceman wrote:Thanks to all others who skipped my bit about not being interested in opinions.....


This is a bit absurd man. You're effectively saying 'here's my opinion about everything that's wrong with this forum, I'm putting my opinions out there, but I'm not interested in anybody elses opinion.' If you don't want anybody elses opinion, why start this topic publicly? Forums only exist because people have opinions.

I don't agree with everything SSNZ has ever said or has ever done, but I have been happy to be be a member of this forum - which he and a couple of other evil, heavy-handed tyrants (sic) started - for about 7 years (counting the time spent on the previous version of this forum).

I have been a member of many forums, and this is the one I have enjoyed the most, which is why I keep coming back to visit, even though I am not currently collecting Transformers. I've made friends here and had lots of fun.

You say it should be run proffesionally. Bollocks. This is not a proffesional operation, it is a free not for profit community. You don't have to pay to join, and SSNZ isn't here to make money. He is here voluntarily, and he puts a lot of work in purely for the enjoyment and benefit of others in the TF community, most of the time paying for hosting etc out of his own pocket, only asking for contributions occasionally when times got tough. For that he should be commended and appreciated.

I have always enjoyed the friendly, casual nature of this forum compared to all the 'serious' american ones. Come on man, we're grown ups (mostly) who collect 20 year old kids toys. How can anyone take that seriously?

My 'opinion' is, perhaps you'd be happier starting your own more 'proffesional' forum, no one's stopping you. Personally, I'll just stick around here.
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Re: .....is tfnz dying?

Postby iceman » Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:24 pm

no point starting other forums as the same people would try joining and in the case of some members, nah to that :D

as for not interested in opinions mr sooty, i tagged it in there as i expected the typical dribble and ass licking from some people to ssnzs defense, which ads kibble to my topic which is a question to one person.

since my points seem to fall on deaf ears, sweet as, I am counting myself out. fair well.

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